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Traveller-digest      Friday, November 5 1999      Volume 1999 : Number 1311<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Border Guards<BR>
Re: Solomani Rim data<BR>
Re: Islamic Observances in Interstellar Space (Was: Re: [OT] Cultural Differences)<BR>
RE: Border Guards<BR>
Re: Re: A Well-Regulated Militia<BR>
Re: Border Guards<BR>
Re: A Well-Regulated Militia (new thread title)<BR>
RE: Fiery<BR>
RE: Re Shakedown Glitches<BR>
Re: OT Kiri's name<BR>
Re: OT Kiri's name<BR>
Re: UNCLASSIFIED Was something or other now Language!<BR>
Re: Border Guards<BR>
Re: Dragon Magazine Archive<BR>
RE: Violent Outlet<BR>
Dragon Magazine Archive shortcut<BR>
Re National Guard and other millitias<BR>
Re Imperial Constitutional Government<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 21:43:06 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Border Guards<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> As an outside observer it sometimes seems that US politicians find<BR>
> the US Constitution an impediment to be circumvented rather than<BR>
> something they support. (Oops, getting dangerously OT here.)<BR>
<BR>
Not really. Many *do* have that exact attitude. And there's no reason<BR>
to expect politicians in the future to be any better.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 20:15:10 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Solomani Rim data<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> In a message dated 11/3/99 11:50:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, <BR>
> yikes@evansville.net writes:<BR>
><BR>
>> Wow. Errata in _The Traveller Book_. Kewl.<BR>
>>  <BR>
>>  It says, right there, bigger 'n hell, on page 82: "Hydrographics <BR>
> Percentage<BR>
>>  (2D-7+atmosphere; ..."<BR>
>>  <BR>
>>  This is then contradicted on the table on page 85. Book 6: Scouts, MT <BR>
> Ref's<BR>
>>  Manual, TNE and (apparently) Book 3 all say the table on page 85 is <BR>
> correct.<BR>
><BR>
> Aha!  Another possible explanation for the anomalies I'm seeing. . .<BR>
><BR>
> (I'm also noticing a few anomalies in the population-government-law level<BR>
> sequence.  I just did the capsule description for 0214 Shululsish, for<BR>
> instance.  Of course, I can buy a world with a population in the tens<BR>
> of billions with a participatory democracy, a lot easier than I can buy<BR>
> a Luna-sized world covered with liquid water.  Although I think I have<BR>
> a handwave for that one too. . .)<BR>
<BR>
Who says it has to be *liquid*?<BR>
<BR>
Allow me to point out a Luna-sized world totally covered with ice. It's<BR>
called Europa.  And Pluto is even *smaller*.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 23:32:05 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Islamic Observances in Interstellar Space (Was: Re: [OT] Cultural Differences)<BR>
<BR>
From: David Reed <david.reed@xolutions.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Islamic Observances in Interstellar Space (Was: Re: [OT]<BR>
Cultural Differences)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Correct, to a point.  Although each person varies in his or her capacities,<BR>
>even beginning to attempt such a determination may be beyond most 3I era<BR>
>Muslims.  You are correct that one's intention is the most pertinent aspect<BR>
>of any action ~ not necessarily just the intent to face the appropriate<BR>
>direction when beginning prayer, but the intention to please Allah by<BR>
>keeping the prayers in the first place.  Each believer would likely rise to<BR>
>his or her own level of accuracy, just as they do now.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    I have to say here, that maybe praying in the general direction of earth<BR>
might be the best thing to do, as that is where the Holy Land is.<BR>
<BR>
>I might have to disagree, but neither would I consider myself of an<BR>
>extremely strict orthodoxy.  Once anything has been rendered into its<BR>
>components elements and remade into a new form, I would posit that most<BR>
>"modern" Muslims would accept it as halal; I would.  If not, then one<BR>
should<BR>
>not drink from a well, or even be able to eat anything that hadn't been<BR>
>touched in even some remote fashion by things haram.  There are things in<BR>
>the water table that make me shudder to think... and I don't mean just the<BR>
>fluoride.  I can't speak for Judaism, though.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    Well as a Jew, who tends to keep as kosher as he can, I would have to<BR>
say, that any water that is clean is kosher, no matter where it comes from.<BR>
For example in WWII, Jews who were fighting in the war, or in the Nazi Death<BR>
Camps were released from having to keep kosher, as it could not be done.  I<BR>
think in the 3I, that the same would happen.  I.e. that sometimes water is<BR>
water, & food is food, & you can make ammends later on, when you are still<BR>
alive, & if you die before then, well at least you tried to live & you will<BR>
be forgiven, but the people that forced you off keeping kosher will have<BR>
hell to pay.<BR>
    As for people that follow Islam, I can remember my uncle, who is an<BR>
Iman<sp?> once told me that durring WWII it was OK for people to eat unclean<BR>
foods, inorder to stay alive, & that the British Troops who faught in North<BR>
Africa who followed Islam, offen had to eat pork because there was no other<BR>
food around, & while it was not good, from a short religious point of view,<BR>
it was good in a long term religious POV, as they were fighting against a<BR>
great evil.  And, he said that they all went to paradise due to the fact<BR>
that they fought against the Nazis, & they dwell there, along with the Jews,<BR>
& others who fell fighting the Nazis.<BR>
    OBTrav:  What would be the food & drink restrictions in the 3I?<BR>
<BR>
>I would suspect that 3I Muslims would have to follow their own local lunar<BR>
>calendar for most things other than keeping track of comparable dates to<BR>
>discuss intelligently with others.  There is much discord amongst the Ummah<BR>
>about "which moon" to follow even today for determining events, such as<BR>
Eid.<BR>
>There are hadith, IMO, that rule on the subject which state clearly that<BR>
one<BR>
>should follow the sightings of the moon in one's own city or region, *not*<BR>
>the sightings of the moon elsewhere.  I suppose it would be an interesting<BR>
>debate, though, would it not?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    Yes, it would be.  But, also the Moslims might go to a solar/standard<BR>
calander, just to take care of that problem.<BR>
<BR>
>This, of course, becomes difficult on a moonless sphere, just as prayer<BR>
time<BR>
>calculation becomes very burdensome close to the poles of Terra.  I've<BR>
>pondered it myself, but have sought no scholar's futwa on the topic yet.<BR>
:)<BR>
>If/when I ever do, I'll be sure to share with the list.  I suspect that the<BR>
>now-common, though in-authentic, practice of following the sightings of the<BR>
>moon in Mecca or Medina might gain even wider acceptance, although<BR>
>time/distance will make even that more nigh impossible.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    Again, see above.<BR>
<BR>
>Traveling is a relative thing...  If you live aboard a starship for most<BR>
(or<BR>
>all) of your life, are you still traveling?  I don't think so, but we all<BR>
>seek our own excuses in life.  ;)  But, yes, there are many issues with<BR>
>which to grapple and study on when we attain the stars.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    Well, then, if you live aboard a starship, would that not be your home?<BR>
And, if you are home, then you cannot be traveling can you?<BR>
<BR>
>Hajj is incumbent only upon those to whom it presents no arduous hardship.<BR>
>There are many today that make Hajj every year, and sometimes Umra as well,<BR>
>but I would suspect that barring splinter sects which seek to establish a<BR>
>false Mecca elsewhere (as mentioned in another post), the Hajjis from<BR>
beyond<BR>
>the Sol system would be few, and from beyond the Solomani Rim even fewer.<BR>
>IME, it's unfortunately not necessarily the most pious who make the<BR>
journey,<BR>
>but all too often those who wish to be seen as such and have sufficient<BR>
>capital to do so.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    I would have to take a wild guess & say, that the spirit of the law<BR>
would be followed rather than the letter.  And, also if the mountain will<BR>
not come to the seeker, then the seeker will have to come to the mountain.<BR>
Or, that other holy places will be found.  And, if you cannot go to Mecca,<BR>
you can go there.<BR>
    IIRC, there is a short story about a Moslim who cannot go to Mecca, but<BR>
can go to a local Holy Place, due to a war.  And, so he does, but he & his<BR>
friends have to fight something that is out to destroy the Holy Place, as it<BR>
knows that it will help to end the war for its side.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm<BR>
<BR>
"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,<BR>
the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd<BR>
mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack of<BR>
French porn." - Edmund Blackadder<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings, they did it by<BR>
killing all those who opposed them<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 22:03:16 -0800<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: RE: Border Guards<BR>
<BR>
Thu, 4 Nov 1999 14:42:26 -0800 (PST), Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
<BR>
>>IMO, Imperial right are the right to<BR>
>>a trial before an impartial judge, the right to<BR>
>>present evidence on your behalf, and the right to<BR>
>>call witnesses on your behalf.<BR>
>>Basically it will guarantee the rule of law over<BR>
>>arbitrary action by individuals.<BR>
<BR>
>No, I don't see any _guarantee_ of a _rule of law_ in<BR>
>the Third Imperium.  I think that the Third Imperium<BR>
>will try to establish some predictability of result in<BR>
>order to facilitate interstellar commerce, but beyond<BR>
>that, due process is just not the controlling concern.<BR>
<BR>
Well, I see it as going beyond _some_ predictability.  The<BR>
impression I get is one where the Imperium likes to codify<BR>
and keep things consitent.  When someone does something<BR>
wrong, it is (if it isn't a local matter) presented as having<BR>
broken a law and there is always reference to some trial<BR>
or judicial proceeding.  It also is pretty important for<BR>
trade (central to the Imperium's raison d'etre).<BR>
<BR>
A long distance from a modern view of "innocent until proven<BR>
guilty" but also a long way from arbitrary rule by fiat.<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 22:50:45 -0800<BR>
From: "Mark F. Cook" <markc@peak.org><BR>
Subject: Re: Re: A Well-Regulated Militia<BR>
<BR>
Sword Worlder <swordworlder@clinic.net> writes:<BR>
<BR>
>I doubt that the general populace had canon or warships or heavy cavalry.<BR>
<BR>
While you're correct WRT warships, quite a few cannons were in private<BR>
hands in the<BR>
colonies before, during, and after the War for Independence.  The only<BR>
impediment to<BR>
ownership was cost.  As for heavy cavalry, no one, *including* the British<BR>
had them<BR>
at that time.<BR>
<BR>
As a point of interest, the only impediment to owning Revolutionary/Civil<BR>
War era<BR>
cannons *TODAY* is cost.  There are virtually no goverment restrictions on<BR>
muzzleloading,<BR>
black powder weapons.  A friend of mine near Austin, TX owns a 6-pounder.<BR>
While the<BR>
barrel is made of modern, high-strength steel, the carriage and all<BR>
accessories are<BR>
vintage Civil War manufacture.<BR>
<BR>
        - Mark C.<BR>
          Instructor, Willamette Small Arms Academy<BR>
          EOD, U.S.M.C. 1st MarDiv (Camp Pendleton), Class of '75<BR>
          Full-Auto Director, Albany Rifle & Pistol Club, Albany, OR<BR>
          NRA (Life), SAF (Life), CCRKBA (Life)<BR>
          Front Sight First Family member #1<BR>
<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
 mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com<BR>
 7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com<BR>
 Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
   "Remember that a government big enough to give you everything<BR>
    you want is also big enough to take away everything you have."<BR>
    --Col. David Crockett; member of the Tennessee legislature<BR>
    (1821-1822/1823-1824); member U.S. House of Representatives<BR>
    (1827-1831/1833-1835); and Texas Hero of the Alamo (1836)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 01:00:05 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Border Guards<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> <BR>
> And for that matter, I heard of a case in the US (not sure if it is<BR>
> real) where a politician was convicted of receiving a bribe from X, but<BR>
> X was acquitted of *paying* the bribe.<BR>
<BR>
IIRC, this was part of the Teapot Dome scandal during the Harding<BR>
administration in the early 1920s.  The names that come to mind are<BR>
Doherty and Fell (possibly misspelled), but I can't recall which was<BR>
which (it's been nearly 20 years since I studied the scandal in high<BR>
school).<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 22:57:44 -0800<BR>
From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com><BR>
Subject: Re: A Well-Regulated Militia (new thread title)<BR>
<BR>
"Kelly St.Clair" wrote:<BR>
...<BR>
> ObTrav:  I dunno... a world where after every (quite peaceable) election,<BR>
> the outgoing politicians are ceremonially escorted from their offices by<BR>
> armed members of the populace?<BR>
<BR>
Then I can imagining a politician wanting to be escorted out of office<BR>
as early in the day as possible so, when free of all political duties<BR>
(and being just a member of the populace), can go home grab a personal<BR>
weapon and try to make it over to the office of a political rival or<BR>
friend for the purpose of escorting them from office.<BR>
<BR>
Kristian<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 11:35:07 +1000<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: RE: Fiery<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Jesse said:<BR>
> Ya' know, Rob Caswell's illustrations and deckplans for the Fiery Class<BR>
>Gunned Escort are beautiful, but when you really look at the geometry of the<BR>
>nose area and how the hull joins the nose, the angles are impossible...<BR>
<BR>
I assume you are working from MTJ #2? I had a close look at that last night, and<BR>
the nose-cone appears almost square-sided and therefore taller than the<BR>
streamlined body it is attached to!<BR>
<BR>
Bad ASCII art follows...<BR>
<BR>
 /              /<BR>
|  nose-cone    \  body that the nose is attached to<BR>
 \<BR>
<BR>
..yet they supposedly meet up. An optical illusion in 2D (like most views of<BR>
the Millenium Falcon!!)<BR>
<BR>
Have you created a solution that allows the deckplans to work?<BR>
<BR>
BTW, just out of interest, are all of your models "fully functional"? That is, I<BR>
mean did you actually create the internals, or just use them to refine an outer<BR>
shell? And if so, can we see what they look like inside??<BR>
<BR>
I want to see what the Xboat Tender's bay looks like with 4 Xboats on board. I<BR>
believe there is a catwalk with railing at the "top" of the docking bay - how<BR>
about a pic looking "down" over the edge? Position the camera in the roof + add<BR>
a couple of vacc-suited people leaning over the railing + grav-belted<BR>
vacc-suited person working on one of the 'boats + strategically placed lighting<BR>
+ open bay doors + one 'boat docking = one cool shot!!!<BR>
(please please please... drool)<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 15:57:59 -0800<BR>
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Re Shakedown Glitches<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of William F.<BR>
> Hostman<BR>
> Sent: Tuesday, 2 November 1999 2:25 PM<BR>
> To: traveller@mpgn.com<BR>
> Subject: Re Shakedown Glitches<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> >My players are currently having their ship undergo repairs/annual<BR>
> >maintenance in<BR>
> >a lower tech starport than the ship. They are also performing<BR>
> self-maintenance<BR>
> >on the jump drive, fusion reactor and thrusters, as well as using an<BR>
> >experimental jump drive component.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Anyone have any nice glitches I can throw at them during the shakedown?<BR>
> ><BR>
> one fun one would be to have the experimental drive component result in<BR>
> chromatic variations, for example, red shift everything, or none of the<BR>
> frequencies in the greens can propigate, etc. Fairly harmless, unless<BR>
> you're tweaking with teltales and other displays...<BR>
<BR>
Or how about the experimental component is not callibrated to the ship its<BR>
fitted to resulting in jump grid variation, not enought to cause a mis-jump,<BR>
but bad enough that the characters suspect they are undergoing one. Ie some<BR>
sick crew, display fluctuations in jump drive performance etc.<BR>
Antony Farrell<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 14:25:17 +1000<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: OT Kiri's name<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Kiri said:<BR>
>>So how is your name pronounced?<BR>
><BR>
>The vowel in the first syllable is the same as the vowel in the second<BR>
>syllable, and both syllables are the same length.<BR>
<BR>
"Kih-ree"?<BR>
<BR>
I have a similar problem. Despite having no "c" in my surname, people insist on<BR>
saying it with a French accent. Now, while it may well have been brought over<BR>
with the Normans and then corrupted, the surname "Jaques" (pron. "jakes") has<BR>
been around as an English name at least since the Crusades.<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav? OK, here's one:<BR>
<BR>
***********************<BR>
[taken from a holorecording answerphone message somewhere on Capital,<BR>
anonymously released into the public]<BR>
<BR>
"I say, Iffy, it's me, Prince L - oh, you can see that of course. <giggle> Just<BR>
rang to invite you over to tea sometime soon, hmm? I say - have you seen that<BR>
funny fellow who just dropped in from the Marches? I wonder if he brought his<BR>
"tree-car"? <giggles> Don't know why he's being elevated to his new position -<BR>
did you hear him speak to your Pater? I'm sure he offered to "do lunch" - how<BR>
frightfully quaint! Your Pater didn't bat an eyelid - I suppose he's used to all<BR>
sorts landing here. Even seems to like hosting that Aslan ambassador! Oh, and<BR>
did you know that my endearing bro has decided to traipse off spinward, himself?<BR>
Oh, I *do* hope a Tree-Lion doesn't pounce on him! Maybe I'll inherit early,<BR>
what? <giggle> And did you know that some tiresome people have even suggested<BR>
that _I_ need to get out-and-about more? Don't know why, after all I _have_ been<BR>
to all the social events this year - well, the fashionable ones, at least -"<BR>
<BR>
[message cut off after 5 min time limit]<BR>
***********************<BR>
<BR>
The moral of the story? Along with the multitude of exotica known to the TML,<BR>
ANY of it can be turned into an ObTrav... sorta...  ;-)<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 00:40:13 -0800<BR>
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: OT Kiri's name<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
<david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au><BR>
To: traveller@mpgn.com <traveller@mpgn.com><BR>
Date: Friday, November 05, 1999 12:20 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: OT Kiri's name<BR>
Someone asked:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>>>So how is your name pronounced?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I replied:<BR>
<BR>
>>The vowel in the first syllable is the same as the vowel in the second<BR>
syllable, and both syllables are the same length.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Jaques-Watson-san then enquired:<BR>
<BR>
>"Kih-ree"?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Like this:  霧   And since there are several ways that that can be pronounced<BR>
(in Cantonese it's "mou"), I will clarify:  きり<BR>
<BR>
OK, I know that was obnoxious, please forgive me... I couldn't help it!  I<BR>
just couldn't resist-- I can't believe this thread is still going!<BR>
<BR>
The vowel is the same in both syllables and is almost an "ee" but with a<BR>
little bit of "ih" to it.  Just like the singer Kiri Te Kanawa, as someone<BR>
else mentioned.<BR>
<BR>
>I have a similar problem. Despite having no "c" in my surname, people<BR>
insist on saying it with a French accent.<BR>
><BR>
I'd wondered about that.<BR>
<BR>
> Now, while it may well have been brought over with the Normans and then<BR>
corrupted, the surname "Jaques" (pron. "jakes") has been around as an<BR>
English name at least since the Crusades.<BR>
><BR>
Yeesh, that's another one that I'd get tired of explaining.  You have my<BR>
sympathies!<BR>
<BR>
>ObTrav? OK, here's one:<BR>
><BR>
>***********************<BR>
>[taken from a holorecording answerphone message somewhere on Capital,<BR>
anonymously released into the public]<BR>
><BR>
>"I say, Iffy, it's me, Prince L - oh, you can see that of course. <giggle><BR>
Just rang to invite you over to tea sometime soon, hmm? I say - have you<BR>
seen that funny fellow who just dropped in from the Marches? I wonder if he<BR>
brought his "tree-car"? <giggles> Don't know why he's being elevated to his<BR>
new position - did you hear him speak to your Pater? I'm sure he offered to<BR>
"do lunch" - how frightfully quaint! Your Pater didn't bat an eyelid - I<BR>
suppose he's used to all sorts landing here. Even seems to like hosting that<BR>
Aslan ambassador! Oh, and did you know that my endearing bro has decided to<BR>
traipse off spinward, himself?  Oh, I *do* hope a Tree-Lion doesn't pounce<BR>
on him! Maybe I'll inherit early, what? <giggle> And did you know that some<BR>
tiresome people have even suggested that _I_ need to get out-and-about more?<BR>
Don't know why, after all I _have_ been to all the social events this year -<BR>
well, the fashionable ones, at least -"<BR>
><BR>
>[message cut off after 5 min time limit]<BR>
>***********************<BR>
><BR>
ROTFLMFAO!<BR>
<BR>
>The moral of the story? Along with the multitude of exotica known to the<BR>
TML, ANY of it can be turned into an ObTrav... sorta...  ;-)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
heheheheheh.  I've been in campaigns like that one.<BR>
<BR>
Kiri<BR>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan            93!              Thou Art God...<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"That wickedness weltering around inside of you, inside<BR>
of everyone, is sacred somewhere.  There's a deity out<BR>
there who digs it.  You can respect and love your darkest<BR>
side, disposing of only what is obsolete or impractical.<BR>
It's all about giving yourself permission."<BR>
                                                    -- Jack Darkhand<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 18:45:54 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: UNCLASSIFIED Was something or other now Language!<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> In RL, just look at NZ. They need some serious sub-title help (no offence<BR>
to<BR>
> our ANZAC brethren) thanks to their habit of "E" = "I".<BR>
<BR>
It's you Aussies who say "six" so it sounds like "sex"<BR>
and two so it sounds like "tew" instead of "too"<BR>
<BR>
Frankie.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 10:06:13 +0100 (MET)<BR>
From: Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no><BR>
Subject: Re: Border Guards<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 4 Nov 1999, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>And for that matter, I heard of a case in the US (not sure if it is<BR>
>real) where a politician was convicted of receiving a bribe from X, but<BR>
>X was acquitted of *paying* the bribe. <BR>
<BR>
Well, I don't know if this can happen in the USA or anywhere else,<BR>
but there was a murder here in Norway, were in the criminal case, the<BR>
kid (who was charged of killing his cousine) was found not quilty, while<BR>
when the killed girls parents brought him up on civil charges, they<BR>
were awarded several hundred thousand Norwegian kroner. <BR>
<BR>
Not guilty, son, but you still have to pay.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav: A planet with several types of courts might have you aqquited<BR>
        in one, but when the charges are brought before another, with <BR>
        no relations to the first, you pay. Only the lawyers of the<BR>
        world would know which court would be the best for your case. <BR>
<BR>
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
<BR>
Tommy Grav<BR>
- -------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
tommy.grav@astro.uio.no     http://www.uio.no/~tommygr/  <BR>
Institute of Astrophysics, UiO, No  <BR>
IMTU tn++t4+tg+ ru+ge++ !3i jt+au+st+ls hi++dr-so++zh-sy-sw++ <BR>
 <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 04:20:27 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Dragon Magazine Archive<BR>
<BR>
>I just picked up the Dragon Magazine Archive, and I was wondering if any<BR>
>fellow Travellers might have bookmarked the Traveller articles. If it turns<BR>
>out that nobody has done it, I'll make my Trav bookmarks available on my<BR>
>webpage eventually.<BR>
<BR>
I've had it for about a week now.  :)  I have found the browser that comes<BR>
with it sucks, so I just use Powerdesk98's Explorer and double-click on the<BR>
.PDF files since I already have Acrobat 4.0 installed.  No, I have not<BR>
bookmarked any Traveller items.  Go for it.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 15:03:38 +1000<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: RE: Violent Outlet<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
>> What does "knock up" mean in Britain?<BR>
><BR>
>19) 'Knock you up'. In our country, to wake someone up in the morning so<BR>
they won't be late.<BR>
<BR>
In Oz, to pull up winded after strenuous activity, viz: "Whew! I'm glad that's<BR>
over! I'm feeling a bit knocked up!"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 01:55:57 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Dragon Magazine Archive shortcut<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
>Subject: Dragon Magazine Archive<BR>
><BR>
>I just picked up the Dragon Magazine Archive, and I was wondering if any<BR>
>fellow Travellers might have bookmarked the Traveller articles. If it turns<BR>
>out that nobody has done it, I'll make my Trav bookmarks available on my<BR>
>webpage eventually.<BR>
><BR>
>Damn, having 250 issues of the Dragon is going to take up so much of my time.<BR>
<BR>
  Go to issues #'s 76 & 112 for their own back-issue indices; the first is<BR>
very comprehensive, the other(s) rather less so.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 00:55:55 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re National Guard and other millitias<BR>
<BR>
>Besides the National Guard there are two levels of Militia in the United<BR>
>States, the State Guard and the unorganized Militia.  The State Guard also<BR>
>known as the State Military Reserve is for use only as a second line<BR>
>militia in the state of origin and may not be used outside the state<BR>
>without state permission.  It is equivalent to the British Home Guard of<BR>
>WWII.  In most states it is at a cadre level at best in peace time (San<BR>
>Diego, California's unit is the 41st Inf. Bn.).<BR>
<BR>
In texas, it is "the Army of the Republic of Texas"... the only "Standing"<BR>
army belonging to a State. The Texan Army never disbanded, it simply became<BR>
a militia.<BR>
<BR>
> The<BR>
>unorganized militia consists of all fit for service men between 18 and<BR>
>50.  The last time this was called out was during the Civil War.  Short of<BR>
>a total disaster it won't be called up active duty for the same reason that<BR>
>County Sheriffs don't use their power of involuntary Posse duty, it would<BR>
>be political suicide.  Very few men realize that they have a 8 year<BR>
>military obligation in the United States.<BR>
<BR>
Very few have read the selective service regs, either. When you enlist, you<BR>
enlist for X years active duty, y years inactive ready reserve (where you<BR>
can be recalled to duty on a whim), and X+Y= 8years, measured from latest<BR>
REENLISTMENT... (I read the fine print very carefully... besides, I know 8<BR>
or 9 people who were recalled during Desert Storm, including a SFC (Sgt,<BR>
1st class)  who'd RETIRED... and a SgtMaj who got recalled after retiring<BR>
about 3 years ago for a period of 6 months.... And the last time the<BR>
unorganized militia was called out was Vietnam... via the selective service<BR>
program (aka, the Draft). And, based upon that process, if the unorganized<BR>
milita is called up, they can keep you for duration plus 6 months, or 8<BR>
years, whichever is longer.<BR>
<BR>
Ob Traveller: IMTU, there is no standing Imperial Army below the Army<BR>
level; said units comprise an "Army" HQ per world, with a unified COACC,<BR>
Army, and Wet Navy HQ based upon each world, An Army Group HQ per subsector<BR>
or minor polity, and a Sector Army HQ per sector. The "Imperial" forces of<BR>
each world are called into Imperial Duty when needed, and affixed to the<BR>
appropriate HQ. Note that officers transferred to imperial service in the<BR>
HQ's may not serve in the "Imperial HQ" for their world of origin. The<BR>
"non-imperial" forces are like state organized militias: they only serve<BR>
off world by order of the world government... Note that an HQ for an Army<BR>
Level organization is probably about a battalion, and would include a lot<BR>
of enlisted specialists. I came to this based upon the material in COACC<BR>
(for MT, by GDW)... but I'd been leaning towards it anyway.<BR>
<BR>
Also Ob Traveller, under such a system, how common would it be for the<BR>
really adventuresome to hop to a nearby major world to get into a mroe<BR>
prestigious army???<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 01:09:17 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re Imperial Constitutional Government<BR>
<BR>
>The Moot is only a consultative body, any real power would be via convention,<BR>
>not codified. "But we always had the right to do X" type arguments. The<BR>
>Emporer<BR>
>has the power to issue an Imperial Order to dispand it at any time (to do so,<BR>
>however would be political suicide).<BR>
<BR>
I like this, and nothing in GDW-Canon contravenes this. IIRC, doesn;t M0<BR>
include some "Framing Documents"??<BR>
<BR>
>This is an interesting point, what is the real, explicit and implided<BR>
>powers of<BR>
>the Emporer, Dukes, Nobles, Moot, Beuros, Military and others. Could a<BR>
>Planetary<BR>
>Noble use '1975 Reserve Powers' to dismiss a duely elected planetary<BR>
>government<BR>
>who's polacy is anti imperium? Can A planetary govenment appeal to a subsector<BR>
>or sector duke for an appeal aginst a unfavorable desision? Is the Moot or<BR>
>Emperor the final level of appeal?<BR>
<BR>
IMTU, Yes! But his Huscarles better be able to enforce it. Then again,<BR>
IMTU, an elected official making anti-imperial rules is committing Treason,<BR>
since while ruling a world he holds "Honorary Baron" status... IMTU, all<BR>
rulers are required to swear fealty to AT LEAST the subsector Duke, and<BR>
though him to the Emperor and the Sector Duke. Refusal is Sedition, and<BR>
grounds for Imperial Arrest. Then again, I have 3 basic social classes<BR>
imperium wide: Noble, Citizen, and Subject... individual worlds may have<BR>
more, but the difference between citizen and subject is service in some<BR>
imperially approved carreer, in which some imperial service occurs. Minimum<BR>
4 years of service.<BR>
<BR>
Appeals go up the chain, fist the subsector duke, then the sector duke,<BR>
then the Archduke (if in place), and then the emperor. If in a "Member<BR>
polity", their noble is the first appeal. Certain member polities have<BR>
appeal directly to their viceroy, and then the emperor, For example, the<BR>
Vegan Autonomous District, and a few others.<BR>
<BR>
I allow Citizens and Nobles appeal to the nobles in civil and criminal<BR>
trials. In the case of Nobles, the local moot actually hears the appeal,<BR>
with the subsector duke as Presiding Judge, and the members as the<BR>
appellate-jury. Also, IMTU, Nobles MUST have a trial by Jury, including at<BR>
least 1 noble.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1311<BR>
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